tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post4368358691824267831..comments2024-02-25T08:15:34.559-05:00Comments on The Society of Torch, Pole and Rope: Obligatory Alignment PostMichael Curtishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-4585420117474391172010-02-25T09:06:32.601-05:002010-02-25T09:06:32.601-05:00Very nice post.But I echo Alan, does Alignment hav...Very nice post.But I echo Alan, does Alignment have any game effect?<br /><br />~AoBAdaen of Bridgewaterhttp://www.highadventuregames.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-89237015603624591982010-02-25T09:05:14.591-05:002010-02-25T09:05:14.591-05:00Very nice post.But I echo Alan, does Alignment hav...Very nice post.But I echo Alan, does Alignment have any game effect?<br /><br />~AoBAdaen of Bridgewaterhttp://www.highadventuregames.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-62430249552291268372010-02-25T03:38:48.520-05:002010-02-25T03:38:48.520-05:00Ah - The Black Company - just about the perfect mo...Ah - The Black Company - just about the perfect monkey wrench one could think of for this kind of discussion. Just finished the series for the first time a month ago; excellent books all.Cameron Woodhttp://wayoffbass.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-16502677025264777662010-02-24T15:35:09.675-05:002010-02-24T15:35:09.675-05:00As with many rulesets and rules, I dumped alignmen...As with many rulesets and rules, I dumped alignment decades ago due to the lack of good it did my games. It was too subjective and not dynamic enough (I'm known for keeping Myers-Briggs acronyms for my NPCs).<br /><br />How would some of our memorable anti-heroes fair here? How would Elric be viewed? The Black Comany? Is there a redemptive mechanism? Do Gods follow alignments? Do races have predilictions?LordVreeghttp://celtricia.pbworks.com/FrontPagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-27510097893234683562010-02-23T15:07:39.790-05:002010-02-23T15:07:39.790-05:00This is exactly how we handle alignment. I always ...This is exactly how we handle alignment. I always thought the threefold axis was a bit silly until I read Poul's <i>Three Hearts and Three Lions</i> and the whole "Civilization Vs. Wilderness" thing finally clicked. <br /><br />It also handily sidesteps the arguments that inevitably stem from the "subjective granularity" of the ninefold axis.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00862556389958594140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-42162849715362550922010-02-23T14:53:35.936-05:002010-02-23T14:53:35.936-05:00Excellent post.
I have to admit, though, that I ...Excellent post. <br /><br />I have to admit, though, that I am most definitely not a fan of the whole alignment concept in role-playing, albeit for mostly shallow reasons. I mean, sure, one can get all Socratic on alignment's ass and end up ripping every take on it to laughable tatters - but what really bugs me about it is the way it always ended up getting played:<br /><br />Lawful = Boy Scout Syndrome<br /><br />Neutral = Moral Bipolar Disorder<br /><br />Chaotic = Psychotic, Drunk, Carrying a Weapon, and Just Got Dumped by His Girlfriend and Now You Don't Know If He's Gonna Sit Down and Cry or Get Crazy With a Roomful of Hookers and a Mountain of Coke.<br /><br />Fun for role-playing, of course, but the reality of player-behavior makes trying to build overarching cosmic morality into one's world pretty much a wasted effort.<br /><br />The deeper problem I have is that the very presence of definable alignment, categories that even the gods must logically fall into, must (as it seems to me)neccessitate the existence of some kind of omniscient arbiter - call him God with a capital G - to say who's REALLY been being naughty and who's been being nice. If Law and Chaos are as mutable and plastic in the heavens as they are on the ground, that is, if they aren't any less arguable and abstract among greater powers as they are with mortals, what's the point of having alignments in the game as ruling touchstones for behavior? <br /><br />I know, I know - it doesn't matter where the game is concerned. And it doesn't, but it's still fun to think about sometimes.<br /><br />I've indulged and written too much. Thanks for your patience.Cameron Woodhttp://wayoffbass.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-82876887545016916742010-02-23T12:58:44.815-05:002010-02-23T12:58:44.815-05:00A further comment, as I reread the post:
In short...A further comment, as I reread the post:<br /><br /><i>In short, if the character is generally looking to leave the world a somewhat better place than he found it (for himself, his allies, or descendents anyway), he is considered to be of Lawful alignment.</i><br /><br />In your vision of alignment, I can see both agents of law and chaos thinking that their actions serve to better the world for those like them, so this litmus test seems ambiguous - "better" is in the eye of the beholder.<br /><br />The noble savage resists incursion of civilizing forces to keep his way of life safe for his people and their descendants. The civilizing forces impose their will upon the land with the same desires.<br /><br />As Anthropos Editor mentions, these are goals. I have always thought of alignment as more indicative a measure about how one attempts to achieve a goal rather than the goal itself.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999861302655014098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-41555249245889838472010-02-23T11:52:56.979-05:002010-02-23T11:52:56.979-05:00What happens to spells like Detect/Protection From...What happens to spells like Detect/Protection From Good and Evil, Know Alignment, etc?<br /><br />Do you remove them entirely, limit them to working for Supernatural creatures, add a good/evil axis, or somehow replace them so that they work with Law + Chaos.<br /><br />Also - are you going to use Alignment Languages? I found they worked very well in our D&D game (Latin, Thieves Cant, Black Tongue) but they don't make much sense in our Western game.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-71859566893710095432010-02-23T11:43:53.852-05:002010-02-23T11:43:53.852-05:00While I like reading different takes on alignment ...While I like reading different takes on alignment systems, in practice they just don't seem very important. Not everyone is going to stay 'in alignment' throughout their character's career, there will be steps outside the alignment box, either planned or unplanned. Characters grow, especially after they survive the lower levels and develop a personality all their own. I don't understand the idea to try to constrain them into a box.James Bobbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15509725309612777118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-30692525143669273662010-02-23T11:40:29.094-05:002010-02-23T11:40:29.094-05:00I would echo Chgowiz and Alan exactly: A very stro...I would echo Chgowiz and Alan exactly: A very strong idea that I have always thought works best in many game settings; and how do you like to make it work in a campaign? <br /><br />What you're really doing is exchanging "motive" or "goal" for "alignment," which, like I said, I fully support. Why restrict characters to only having one of two motives, though?Anthropos Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01433096632116995385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-472877984605661952010-02-23T11:37:48.398-05:002010-02-23T11:37:48.398-05:00That's remarkably similar to the way I handle ...That's remarkably similar to the way I handle alignment in Dwimmermount, right down to the civilization angle for Law.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-67193184533187501912010-02-23T11:08:38.432-05:002010-02-23T11:08:38.432-05:00And what purpose does alignment serve in your camp...And what purpose does alignment serve in your campaign? What (if any) game effect does it have?Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999861302655014098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-20431580747167090452010-02-23T10:56:26.298-05:002010-02-23T10:56:26.298-05:00Great post - this makes me want to revise how we&#...Great post - this makes me want to revise how we're handling alignments in our Weird West game (currenly it's White Hat / Grey Hat / Black Hat).<br /><br />The theme of civilization vs wilderness is a really good one, I'm just not sure if I want to ditch the good/bad axis in favor of law/chaos. Having the AD&D style double-axis system seems like it might be too heavy. Worth considering though...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-28268739015208578882010-02-23T10:34:19.728-05:002010-02-23T10:34:19.728-05:00This is probably one of the best alignment posts t...This is probably one of the best alignment posts that explains how my alignment concepts work. Thank you, very well written. Are you sure we're not somehow separated at birth? ;)Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.com