tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post5283213878874562064..comments2024-02-25T08:15:34.559-05:00Comments on The Society of Torch, Pole and Rope: The Undeveloped RealmsMichael Curtishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-850848567812534022009-06-17T13:45:27.802-04:002009-06-17T13:45:27.802-04:00Badmike: Your experiences with the Realms very muc...Badmike: Your experiences with the Realms very much mimic my own, as it was the complexity of the little details compared to the sparseness of Greyhawk that drew me in. At the same time, the canvas of the world was so wide open to invite and accept anything that the DM and his players wanted to do with it.<br /><br /><i>However, any GOOD Dm can ignore the heaps of unnessary material and have a great campaign sticking to the basics</i><br /><br />This is something that I agree with 100% in theory, but not quite as much in practice. I have a post the covers this exact topic being prepared, since I think it's very pertinent to any published game world and the Realms brand in particular. I'd ne remiss not to touch upon it.Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-70449510119940649532009-06-17T13:29:34.440-04:002009-06-17T13:29:34.440-04:00"In 1987-88, TSR published six books in the F..."In 1987-88, TSR published six books in the FR series. These were Waterdeep and the North, Moonshae, Empires of the Sands, The Magister, The Savage Frontier, and Dreams of the Red Wizards." <br /><br />This was truly the (very short) golden age of FR gaming. I too was a FR devotee; the original boxed set (for 1E) was brilliant, just enough detail to intrigue but lacking details enough to let the DM create his own world. Taken with the very few first supplements, this is a game world with a breadth and depth of imagination rivaling the WOG and allowing for all styles of play. For me the World of Greyhawk was just a map with little blurbs for a lot of the locations; I wanted more info, and the FR world and boxed set gave us that (compare Ed's brilliant FR1 City of Waterdeep with the abysmal City of Greyhawk boxed set....quick to point out not written by EGG...and his Waterdeep is by far the more intersesting and playable setting of the two) <br /><br />I think a campaign game with the original box set and these handful of supplements would be truly fun, and that's exactly what we did when FR first came out, running a long campaign in the Moonshae islands (because that was the only setting that had been released when we started play in the FR), then eventually an Undermountain campaign that took a couple of years and never ventured from the city of Waterdeep. Our last campaign took place on the edges of the civilized world (Phlan and the Moonsea) and we were already growing weary of the intensive commercialization that even saw a boxed set called "Elminsters Ecologies" released, which catalogued flora and fauna in the Realms!!! This over commercialization and demystification of the Realms led to the creation and implementation of my own campaign world, so I guess it wasn't all for bad.<br /><br />However, any GOOD Dm can ignore the heaps of unnessary material and have a great campaign sticking to the basics. Greenwood in his way was as much a genius as any world designer, and this is really only fully shown in the orignal boxed set. It would be great to leave all the fluff behind and start over with the original box, FR1-6, and Ruins of Undermountain.Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-58619012342608989992009-06-16T23:07:11.667-04:002009-06-16T23:07:11.667-04:00We saw what they did with the god wars series of b...<i>We saw what they did with the god wars series of books, where Cyric etc. became gods, and how TSR was integrating and changing future supplements based on novels, and we decided very early on not to ride that roller coaster</i>.<br /><br />Which brings us to tomorrow's post...Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-14715662401914444472009-06-16T20:55:57.326-04:002009-06-16T20:55:57.326-04:00What's interesting is that what we did with th...What's interesting is that what we did with the Realms is buy the grey box, buy the first 6-8 supplements detailing regions, then stop. We saw what they did with the god wars series of books, where Cyric etc. became gods, and how TSR was integrating and changing future supplements based on novels, and we decided very early on not to ride that roller coaster.Joethelawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00380090049725742287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-34380030106520561082009-06-16T12:27:56.753-04:002009-06-16T12:27:56.753-04:00Well, Mike, I was just discussing this stuff with ...Well, Mike, I was just discussing this stuff with a cohort here at work, and I tossed this bit his way:<br /><br /><i>I don’t care what the hell the </i>3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Compendiapedia <i>or whatever says about Shadowdale; in <b>my</b> Realms, it’s a sizeable city in the Dalelands that’s been enslaved by Thri-kreen. Oh, and gnomish slaves built it for their Slime Elf masters, so it’s full of hideyholes and secret tunnels and crap.</i> <br /><br />Hey, this is fun!Dr Rotwanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16750632906878388570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-38328015505796906822009-06-16T11:09:06.715-04:002009-06-16T11:09:06.715-04:00An additional article to think about in the series...<i>An additional article to think about in the series might be a comparison between what's happened to the Realms and what Living Greyhawk has done for Greyhawk</i><br /><br />I'd have to leave that to someone much more knowledgeable about Greyhawk and Living Greyhawk, as my experiences with the first are limited and, in the second case, non-existent.Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-79115613709011933882009-06-16T11:06:25.120-04:002009-06-16T11:06:25.120-04:00Dr-Rotwang: When I started putting these posts tog...Dr-Rotwang: When I started putting these posts togethers, I realized (and feared) that I was doing so mostly for my own sake: to work out my own issues and reflect on what once was. I'm very pleased that others, such as yourself, are being inspired to look back on the Realms and remember the old days and think of new ways to preserve and revisit Faerun once again. I'd be very interested to hear how your original boxed set efforts go.Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-68815718653955268762009-06-16T11:02:13.897-04:002009-06-16T11:02:13.897-04:00I'm very much looking forward to the posts. I ...I'm very much looking forward to the posts. I suspect that many of us in the community feel the same about it. An additional article to think about in the series might be a comparison between what's happened to the Realms and what Living Greyhawk has done for Greyhawk.<br /><br />Thanks for doing this, I lost touch with FR after a while, only recently picking up a used copy of the 3.x book for it. Haven't looked through it yet though to see the changes.Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837009476119348823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-42532677950296480162009-06-16T11:01:16.186-04:002009-06-16T11:01:16.186-04:00Anonymous: Thanks for that information. It certain...Anonymous: Thanks for that information. It certainly clears up some questions that I've always had on why Moonshae (a place so far removed from the Realms as a whole) was the setting for the first FR novel and the second sourcebook. I'd always thought that was an odd marketing plan, but, in light of this, it makes much more sense.<br /><br />That Azure Bonds was supposed to be a stand-alone novel also explains why the trilogy seemed a little wonky to me, even back then. Thanks!Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-3432908510182022002009-06-16T10:57:26.899-04:002009-06-16T10:57:26.899-04:00Derek: Over the next few posts, I think you'll...Derek: Over the next few posts, I think you'll discover that we're both of a very similiar mind. It's nice to see that I'm not alone in my experiences and attitudes towards the Realms, and I think you'll enjoy (or at least identify) with what's forthcoming over the course of the week. Thank you for sharing your memories.Michael Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217338828086458862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-32710315835127325462009-06-16T10:55:32.290-04:002009-06-16T10:55:32.290-04:00Ya know, Mike, for a...for a while now, I've b...Ya know, Mike, for a...for a while now, I've been saying: "Sometimes, I wanna grab that <i>FR</i> box off the shelf, grab a notebook, and pretend the last twenty-some years never happened*." <br /><br />Naturally, I have not yet done that.<br /><br />Reading this series (just 2 days in!), however, moves me to get off my metaphorical buttocks and do just that -- specifically, to reach for the Old Grey Box, pick a place on the map at random, and flesh it out to <i>my</i> order. <br /><br />I'll let you know how it goes. By the way, my verification word here is "brapper", which I officially declare to be the greatest word for anything, ever.<br /><br />*I have a lot of reasons for wanting to ignore the last two decades, but I digressDr Rotwanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16750632906878388570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-16085843134583413422009-06-16T10:27:28.818-04:002009-06-16T10:27:28.818-04:00Just a couple of notes for you. The Moonshae nove...Just a couple of notes for you. The Moonshae novel trilogy was Niles' own creation, and originally was to have nothing to do with the Forgottrn Realms, but it was adjusted to fit (and the Realms adjusted to host it) before either the novels or the boxed set were published. The Moonshaes weren't in Ed's version of the Realms. Also, Azure Bonds, like Spellfire, was not intended as the first of a trilogy. They only added "Book one of the Finder's Stone Trilogy" to it after the sequel was out and the third part planned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4727301007280965202.post-22202765186569686252009-06-16T09:50:10.358-04:002009-06-16T09:50:10.358-04:00This series prompted me to dig the Cyclopedia from...This series prompted me to dig the Cyclopedia from the grey box that still sits prominently on my shelf, between other TSR boxes. I remember seeing three of them in the store and, with two friends and fellow DMs, buying them out. <br /><br />My first impression was that it was a Greyhawk styled environment with a better foundation laid for making what would become known as a sandbox. the modules that followed, Waterdeep & the North, etc. were the Gazetteer done "right". "Right" being entirely subjective. <br /><br />The original FR caught my imagination in a way Greyhawk never did and it's hard to quantify why. I was in High School when Greyhawk was released, everything before that was either totally home brewed, swiped from the books we read whole cloth, or just module play w/out worrying about more of the setting than what the module covered. With FR, there were decidedly different regions with enough information on what was unique, while not being so much that you couldn't customized the hell out of it. Very light frameworks of relations between cities and regions that could be built on. Many of things I always struggled with in developing my own worlds or in fleshing out Greyhawk were given just enough of a start that I could keep going without the start up costs.<br /><br />I miss it. If/when I run again, the temptation would be there to dig out the old notes on the corner I made my own. To return to the grey box and the grey box alone. <br /><br />Although I certainly don't hold it against TSR, WotC, or Hasbro, I blame the crass commercialization of the product on the loss of my old friend. The owners of the franchise have to make a buck too, or nothing new comes out, but I don't have to like it. I was amazed at the way the "good" drow concept captured people's imagination (hated it, myself), but it was the start down the road they've come. <br /><br />There is a lot of mileage still in the FR, but for myself, it's only if I return to the way we used to do it and disregard the last almost 20 years of product line.Derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06837009476119348823noreply@blogger.com